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incydeout
Member
I was wondering if anybody knows about any cheapish software that allows beatmatching (not auto-syncing) with midi or keyboard controls. I have a Novation ReMote SL Compact with infinite knobs, no sliders, and a few triggers and buttons. I also don't have a soundcard with multiple outs, so I can't use headphones as-is; I was wondering if there was a workaround that doesn't involve buying new hardware. Any help would be amazing...
 
KC
Member
something cheap: virtualdj pro or sonar 8.5. both under 400, but i think the sonar 8.5 would be better for what you already have
 
Been fucking DJ Tranzit and his mom in the ass for years
incydeout
Member
Thanks KC.

Why did this thread disappear so fast? I made it 11 hours ago... bump!
 
JodoKaast
Member
software that allows beatmatching (not auto-syncing)
What does this mean?

You mean you're looking for a program that can play two tracks at once, that you can also change the tempo/key like on a turntable? Because every program that does that also has the option for syncing. As soon as you make a program that quantizes beats in a track, you're only a couple of steps away from easily and automatically matching those quantized beats.

I personally prefer Traktor, but you can also do it in Ableton and Virtual DJ and Torq and I would imagine any DJ program that's ever been made.

As for extra hardware, there's not much you can do to be able to output two tracks at once without two separate audio outputs. The best you can do is get a stereo splitting cable, and then output the master as mono and the headphone cue as mono. But that's not a real solution, in my opinion.

But, a surround sound audio card will generally give you 3 independent stereo outputs, which combined with something like ASIO4ALL will give you all the control you need for multiple track/cue output. If you get a 7.1 surround card, you can actually hook up 4 virtual decks...
 
tommy
Member
i wake and sleep with Ableton Live! It's an amzing program. It doesn't exactlt "auto-sync". You do have to warp the tracks manually. I DJ But 80% of the tracks I mix live are my own productions. I use various VST plugs too.
I use a Novation Launchpad as a controller. It's really awesome because I can customize so many different controller(dj) set-ups and save them as Live sets and use them whenever. When you start using Ableton(especially while DJ'ing you will hear it from mad haters who say that you're not really DJ'ing. I personally can't stand that dumb shit. Beat-Matching is ONE SINGLE SKILL, and ppl make it seem like thats all dj'ing is about. I warp my tracks but the time I would normally spend Beat-matching(Live) I use to do so many other things. I can beat-match all day, but technology eliminated the need for it.
Anyway, There's really no work-around for the channel situation. you need at least 3-4 channels to be able to cue. I have an old Fast-Track Pro that still works great. It also has hella inputs for, mic, guitar, balanced Outs and un-balanced outs. Phantom Power and a nice sample rate. So ya, you will eventually need to get an audio-interface with more channels. But as for programs I say Ableton Live All Day!!!!
 
incydeout
Member
Okay, so basically I really just want to learn to beatmatch without having to buy an actual DJ setup... and trying to learn at other people's houses just doesn't work for me. I was under the impression that Live only autosynced tracks to the master tempo... if there's a way to live dj with it, fantastic. I already have a splitter built into my laptop... so since I'm just trying to learn the basics, I think that might work.
 
incydeout
Member
Alright, so since I'm an audio nut, I had the cables to separate the left and right channels, and then split both to the left/right master out, and the left/right headphone out. Not a professional solution by any means, but it works for now. So, I've got that part covered at least.

I've already got Live, so that's probably going to be my first choice in programs.

But... I've been searching the web for hours trying to see if there's any way to set up Live like a pair of cdj's... and to no avail. Basically here's what I want to do:

-Have one encoder mapped to the crossfader (covered)
-Have one encoder mapped to the jog shuttle of channel A (like the big wheel on a CDJ)
-Have one encoder mapped to control the tempo of channel A
-Have one button set up to set a cue point on channel A
-Have one button set up to trigger from a cue point on channel A (covered, I think.)
-Do all of the above for channel B

I'm not worried about the other controls, like EQ, levels, or special effects; I'm just trying to learn how to beatmatch by ear WITHOUT having to set up tracks before I play. I want to jam out, not click a mouse for an hour. Is this even possible in Live?
 
Gunther
Member
Post from incydeoutOkay, so basically I really just want to learn to beatmatch without having to buy an actual DJ setup... and trying to learn at other people's houses just doesn't work for me. I was under the impression that Live only autosynced tracks to the master tempo... if there's a way to live dj with it, fantastic. I already have a splitter built into my laptop... so since I'm just trying to learn the basics, I think that might work.
why not buy a set of cheap CDJ's?

other than that Im sure you can find a free version of traktor somewhere.

I use the same midi controler as you. I've tried it traktor with it and just midi mapped the knobs and the keys to different functions in the program. I also have a korg nanopad. This was cheap (like $40) and mapped that to it as well for the start and stop functions for the tracks.

None of this is really going to teach you how to beat match though. You might be better off heading over to a buddy's place that has a set up.
 
CUTUPS
Member
2c: I'd say just get traktor.
 
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JodoKaast
Member
I'd agree with peterlee. For solely learning beatmatching, you really can't beat turntables (regular records or timecode controlling style).

A lot of programs will be hard to make beatmatch perfectly, because of the sensitivity of the tempo sliders. If you have a track at 130bpm and another you're trying to match at 135bpm, but your tempo slider's smallest increment is 0.1%, you won't have luck getting the bpm to exactly match up. (130bpm * 0.001 = 0.13, so the closest you can get to 135 is 134.94 or 135.07. 135 * 0.001 = 0.135, giving you 130.005 or 129.87 as the closest speed.) Those numbers obviously aren't wildly different, but for practicing beatmatching and especially if you want to hold a mix for an extended period of time, it will interfere and you'll constantly be jogging the platter to get it back in sync.

There's ways around it, like setting the sensitivity higher. In traktor you can also manually type in a bpm you want, or edit the grid spacing visually.

Any digital interface will have this problem, including CDJs. It all depends on the precision of the internal BPM clock and the sensitivity of the tempo slider.

I'm not as familiar with trying to set up Ableton to behave like decks, because Traktor basically does everything and more I could think of for emulating turntables or CDJs. If you want something easy to set up to behave like you're talking, I'd try out their demo version. Just because it has a sync button doesn't mean you have to use it. But be aware of the caveats mentioned above..
 
BlackDaddy
Member
http://www.ionaudio.com/discoverdj

learn to beat match and basic mixing on that.
its like, the absolute bare MINIMUM for mixing.
you get exactly wat u pay for haha.
100 bucks for a plastic toy that teaches u basic mixing :P
and to use headphones with it, u need to buy a usb sound card.
i got one at radio shack for 5 bucks.


tho i took it back after having it for 5 minutes, lmao.
it was an impulse buy haha.
spent 100 bucks more to get actual cdjs instead ;p
 
"2012 - The whole world goes silent after the last rave whistle is blown"
Moire
Member
Post from JodoKaastI'd agree with peterlee. For solely learning beatmatching, you really can't beat turntables (regular records or timecode controlling style).

A lot of programs will be hard to make beatmatch perfectly, because of the sensitivity of the tempo sliders. If you have a track at 130bpm and another you're trying to match at 135bpm, but your tempo slider's smallest increment is 0.1%, you won't have luck getting the bpm to exactly match up. (130bpm * 0.001 = 0.13, so the closest you can get to 135 is 134.94 or 135.07. 135 * 0.001 = 0.135, giving you 130.005 or 129.87 as the closest speed.) Those numbers obviously aren't wildly different, but for practicing beatmatching and especially if you want to hold a mix for an extended period of time, it will interfere and you'll constantly be jogging the platter to get it back in sync.

There's ways around it, like setting the sensitivity higher. In traktor you can also manually type in a bpm you want, or edit the grid spacing visually.

Any digital interface will have this problem, including CDJs. It all depends on the precision of the internal BPM clock and the sensitivity of the tempo slider.

I'm not as familiar with trying to set up Ableton to behave like decks, because Traktor basically does everything and more I could think of for emulating turntables or CDJs. If you want something easy to set up to behave like you're talking, I'd try out their demo version. Just because it has a sync button doesn't mean you have to use it. But be aware of the caveats mentioned above..
Thumbs up for clearly explaining this problem.

I have each channel set up on my X-Session Pro with rotary knobs that trigger the +/- buttons that you see in the channel box. I'll have to check what the exact mappings are (chan A trigger repeat..? something like that), but it seems to work very effectively around what I call "Tempo-Aliasing". Sometimes you have to move both until you get something comparitively close enough.

For more on the subject...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliasing
 
fuzz
Member
Post from Guntherwhy not buy a set of cheap CDJ's?

other than that Im sure you can find a free version of traktor somewhere.

I use the same midi controler as you. I've tried it traktor with it and just midi mapped the knobs and the keys to different functions in the program. I also have a korg nanopad. This was cheap (like $40) and mapped that to it as well for the start and stop functions for the tracks.

None of this is really going to teach you how to beat match though. You might be better off heading over to a buddy's place that has a set up.
Great points and I would encourage you to learn how to do it manually on cdjs or decks first and master it then move on to software don't get started using the software as a crutch...though i dont think you are but I guess what I am getting at is learning it all no shortcuts will only make you better as you gain experience....take it from alot of those who commented on this thread you won't regret it!

good luck and most importantly have FUN!
 
incydeout
Member
Fun is probably the biggest incentive I have to learn - you can't really just sit and jam out awesome techno. I downloaded traktor, and I'm going to see how well that works for the time being.
 
ddrninja
Member
Post from incydeoutFun is probably the biggest incentive I have to learn - you can't really just sit and jam out awesome techno. I downloaded traktor, and I'm going to see how well that works for the time being.
you mean you can't? it seems to be no problem for me, ive been jamming since 2002
 
I will eat your soul
incydeout
Member
It depends on what you're trying to jam I guess. I don't think you can jam out sweet neurofunk with a keyboard and a few drum pads. But if you're going for a lighter Aphex Twin kind of feel, or even trance, you could probably get away with playing that all live.
 
majorwallas123
Newbie
You can also use USB headphones if you want to use headphones with software. Most USB headphones have a seperate driver on your operating system and can work in tandem with your normal sound card, so you can pump sound out of both at the same time.
Also, ASIO4ALL merges all sound devices into one and uses the maximum channels available, so it isn't a good option for using headphones unless your sound card has native ASIO support in it.
 
djgraph
Member
usb headphones?  lol bluetooth scrub
 
i actually miss netic. w/e on all of you
pablo814
Premium Member
Online
You can pick up the whole Korg Nano series of controllers for about $120 for a 3 pieces(pad, keyboard, knobs n slides) like Pete said and if u r starting to learn find a copy of Abelton or Traktor for free somewhere. Get legit copies if you plan on playing out/releasing tracks tho...

Also, when I was learning the ropes of making beats/recording, I found that it was a blessing and a curse to learn on a ghetto rig of a studio. It sucked cause the equipment wasn't the greatest, but it forced us to really learn all the ins and outs of what we had, and we figured out how to tweak what we had to do what we needed/wanted. I guess what I am trying to say is learn how to use old hardware as well as the modern all-in-one software...
 
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