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MEZZANINE
Member
Using Ableton Live - Suite 8. Trying to see what I can do with it, spend more of my spare time doing something productive.

What plugins would you strongly recommend? I am a beginner, so please keep this in mind. Also, any general advice would help as well!
 
rukkus
Member
play with the tutorials! They helped me a lot.
 
Gunther
Member
Skip Ableton and go for Cubase 5. Unless of course you are going to use Ableton to play sets. (which you can do with your 1000's if you are using a pioneer 800 mixer). I cant stress enough how awesome cubase is though.

As for VST's check out this site. http://www.kvraudio.com. There are tons of free VST's a some trials, too. The great part is there are tons of reviews from pros and consumers.

For the type of music that you play, Paul. I'd look into battery 3 and maybe even Nexus. I have a ton if you want to test drive a few.
 
MEZZANINE
Member
Why do you like Cubase?
 
doog
Premium Member
Ableton is great if you use use midi controllers to produce your shit as opposed to clicking and dragging.  I love the drumrack, and how it has 3 browsers that you can quickly switch between (1, 2, 3) when grabbing samples.  I also like it's time stretching algorithm, which can be done in real time and recorded, something I haven't yet been able to do in Logic (which is based off of Cubase).

Logic and Cubase (IMO) are best for actually recording samples and doing editing on samples, whereas Ableton is super smooth for arrangements.  It automatically time stretches your samples to fit your bpm, and you can click in time to set your bpm.

I would mess around with Simpler and Sampler, and check out some of the instruments that come with it.

The workflow is a bit different from other programs and takes some getting used to.  It really depends how you approach writing whether or not it's the best for you.

Fun tip:
highlight what you want to repeat, Control+D to duplicate. It doesn't get easier.
 
Gunther
Member
off the top of my head...

low latency

sweet drum editor

the MIDI sequencing toolset

kick ass effects

the variaudio option

you can plug in hardware

over all set up

loop mash options

I like it most because its more of a home studio on my laptop. I feel with ableton is more arranging. Personally I grew up using hardware. This gives more of the ability to write using synths. Not that ableton is bad but in the way I do things is I like to write from scratch with out samples...ect.
 
MEZZANINE
Member
Thanks a lot for your input, guys! I am so new at this point I have no idea how I like to do things. I'll stick with what I have for now and just try to learn.

My initial question about plugins in particular was to become aware of the pitfalls or weaknesses that Ableton may posses and prepare for them ahead of time and to not pick up any bad habits. I am probably over thinking this... thanks again!
 
doog
Premium Member
Post from MEZZANINEThanks a lot for your input, guys! I am so new at this point I have no idea how I like to do things. I'll stick with what I have for now and just try to learn.

My initial question about plugins in particular was to become aware of the pitfalls or weaknesses that Ableton may posses and prepare for them ahead of time and to not pick up any bad habits. I am probably over thinking this... thanks again!
I'm not a huge fan of Ableton's 8band filter compared to Logic's.  Also would it kill them to have a natural sounding grand piano amongst all the useless crap they give you?

Reverb, Delay, Flange, Chorus, all that stuff is decent.  It's all about what works for you tho!
 
fonz
Member
VST(i)s
izotope-ozone 3 or 4
Korg-wavestation,polysix
GFORCE- oddity
Synapse- junglist
Arturia minimoog
Rob Papen- Blue, predator
Refx TBL Bassline
G-sonique alien303. Renegade
Discord vst2

Antares Filter Autotune and any other antares and NI plug ins you can find
Ill add more later
 
abZ
Member
I like the 8-band myself.  I know a lot of people that don't tho.  Different strokes for different folks.  

Keep it simple, follow all the tutorials.  Use youtube for tutorials, that really helped me when I switched over.  Once you are pretty comfy then start adding some plug ins.  

I personally can't stand Cubase.  It is really unintuitive imo.  The work flow is much quicker in Ableton.  But this isn't really the place to argue the ups and downs of DAWs as dood has obviously chosen is weapon.  I think it was a good choice!   I love Ableton for editing audio tho.  Recording and everything.  I don't use hardware but you can do that as well with Live.  Ableton with the last couple builds is now considered one of the big boys, it is deserved imo.  


 
fonz
Member
Post from Guntheroff the top of my head...

low latency

sweet drum editor

the MIDI sequencing toolset

kick ass effects

the variaudio option

you can plug in hardware

over all set up

loop mash options

I like it most because its more of a home studio on my laptop. I feel with ableton is more arranging. Personally I grew up using hardware. This gives more of the ability to write using synths. Not that ableton is bad but in the way I do things is I like to write from scratch with out samples...ect.
Im the opposite- I like ableton for the reasons you dislike it it appears. It was what drew me to it in the first place and what really got me excited about producing as opposed to other setups.  Abletons setup made me feel more comfortable than all other programs although I would like to learn logic because when I saw a friend use it years  ago it looked like I could work with it well too.
 
abZ
Member
Post from fonzIm the opposite- I like ableton for the reasons you dislike it it appears. It was what drew me to it in the first place and what really got me excited about producing as opposed to other setups.  Abletons setup made me feel more comfortable than all other programs although I would like to learn logic because when I saw a friend use it years  ago it looked like I could work with it well too.
There are some strange things with Logic too.  Like with the editing of automation for one.  Things could be greatly simplified.  That is the problem with the older sequencers tho.  Pro Tools is even worse.  They could fix the issues with newer builds but they would piss off engineers that have been used to doing things a certain way for 10 - 15 years.  

Ableton actually works a lot like those older sequencers if that is the way you want to use it.  The thing that is great about it is for a lot of tasks they have taken many steps out of the equation.  Sometimes a new Ableton user will have troubles because what they are trying to do is actually easier than they think it should be.  Just like drag and drop for so much shit.  Once you get that, I don't see you going back to another sequencer.

The session view will scare a lot of old schoolers away.  I will tell you, I don't even use the session view!  Except for using the mixer and stuff.  But if you want to do live stuff, this view is essential.  I just use the session view, which operates pretty much the same way traditional sequencers work.  
 
fonz
Member
You meant to say the arrangement view in the end there but yeah I gotcha.  The session view fucked with me when I first saw ableton but luckily I had seen someone use it before I downloaded it.

The drag and drop features are so excellent.

We need to have an ableton sticky thread fareals
 
abZ
Member
Post from fonzYou meant to say the arrangement view in the end there but yeah I gotcha.  The session view fucked with me when I first saw ableton but luckily I had seen someone use it before I downloaded it.

The drag and drop features are so excellent.

We need to have an ableton sticky thread fareals
Yeah yeah good lookin out.

 
Gunther
Member
The newest build of cubase blows everything off the map. Its basicly the PC version of logic. I guess it depends on how or what you are making. There is some new stuff in 5 that cant be done with anything else. The fact that you can change the shape and pitch of vocals by the wave length itself is unreal.(variaudio) Lots of people dont like Cubase because you cant steal it. lol.

To each their own... though.
 
fonz
Member
if cubase is pc why couldn't u steal it?   Don't know much about cubase
 
MEZZANINE
Member
Post from fonzif cubase is pc why couldn't u steal it?   Don't know much about cubase
I have heard that a SecureSync ID (or similar key) is required in order to validate CuBase?

Either way - CuBase 5 hasn't been hacked yet (or, hasn't been hacked and made public yet)

More power to them...
 
abZ
Member
Post from GuntherThe newest build of cubase blows everything off the map. Its basicly the PC version of logic. I guess it depends on how or what you are making. There is some new stuff in 5 that cant be done with anything else. The fact that you can change the shape and pitch of vocals by the wave length itself is unreal.(variaudio) Lots of people dont like Cubase because you cant steal it. lol.

To each their own... though.
Well I have never used 4 or 5 because as you say you can't steal it lol.  The last I used was SX, I don't know what version 2 or 3.  I wanted to use it.  I wanted to like it.  I just didn't.  But I don't have to use the latest greatest thing, I don't really care who wins.  I am very comfortable with Ableton and I am really fast with it.  Let's my creativity flow.  That is what counts.  There is still a good percentage of electronic producers using Fruity and Reason ffs and it's no knock on those programs there are things you can do with each of them that you can't with anything else.  That is pretty much the same with any app that is currently being sold and updated.  

If I didn't get addicted to Live I would probably be using Reaper.  They are doing some great things with that app and it is actually the right price.  No arms and legs on the tag.  Pretty much everything else is overpriced.  

 
EVILCYBORG
Member
Post from abZThere are some strange things with Logic too.  Like with the editing of automation for one.  Things could be greatly simplified.  That is the problem with the older sequencers tho.  Pro Tools is even worse.  They could fix the issues with newer builds but they would piss off engineers that have been used to doing things a certain way for 10 - 15 years.  

Ableton actually works a lot like those older sequencers if that is the way you want to use it.  The thing that is great about it is for a lot of tasks they have taken many steps out of the equation.  Sometimes a new Ableton user will have troubles because what they are trying to do is actually easier than they think it should be.  Just like drag and drop for so much shit.  Once you get that, I don't see you going back to another sequencer.

The session view will scare a lot of old schoolers away.  I will tell you, I don't even use the session view!  Except for using the mixer and stuff.  But if you want to do live stuff, this view is essential.  I just use the session view, which operates pretty much the same way traditional sequencers work.  
Awww, hell nah! lol

I think the automation in logic is simple as piss. You can draw it or record it or copy and paste it.

My only gripe with Logic is dealing with straight audio files. The editor just sucks. Or I haven't learned it properly(probably the latter). And if you edit a file somewhere else it loads it wrong. However, I think using the exs24 sampler is 1000000x easier to use when working with samples anyways and uses very little cpu.

Yeah, ableton. Sorry for the hijack.
 
doog
Premium Member
^When moving from ableton to Logic, the automation does seem a bit whack.  Touch, Read, Off, Write, and all that shit.  In ableton, press record, automate data.  Just as easy to touch up afterward.
 
abZ
Member
Post from doog^When moving from ableton to Logic, the automation does seem a bit whack.  Touch, Read, Off, Write, and all that shit.  In ableton, press record, automate data.  Just as easy to touch up afterward.
That is what I'm sayin'.

 
EVILCYBORG
Member
Ohhhh, that.

It's easy.

Off is well, no automation.

Read is...reading the automation. If you don't record automation and draw everything, it's the only mode necessary. Also, all modes except for off "read" or play what was recorded. Also, read is kinda like safety mode so you don't fuck up something you recorded.

Latch and touch are very similar modes which both record automation. Latch records whatever you automate and leaves the knob where you leave it. Touch records the automation, but snaps back to the original position once you depress the mouse. I rarely use touch, but it's usefull if you have everything set up how you want and only want to record little edits here and there and what everything exactly as it was before any manipulation of knobs and such.

That didn't exactly uncomplicate it. :teeth:

It is easy though.
 
Gunther
Member
Post from MEZZANINEI have heard that a SecureSync ID (or similar key) is required in order to validate CuBase?

Either way - CuBase 5 hasn't been hacked yet (or, hasn't been hacked and made public yet)

More power to them...
Yeah you need to have a dongle plugged in to make it work. There are cracked versions of cubase 4 but the are not stable at all. They usually crash as you are working on something.

I still love ReDrum on reason. I still use it and rewire it into cubase. I still dont think there has been any better drum machine that has come out yet for and DAWs. Unless Im missing something.
 
doog
Premium Member
Post from EVILCYBORGOhhhh, that.

It's easy.

Off is well, no automation.

Read is...reading the automation. If you don't record automation and draw everything, it's the only mode necessary. Also, all modes except for off "read" or play what was recorded. Also, read is kinda like safety mode so you don't fuck up something you recorded.

Latch and touch are very similar modes which both record automation. Latch records whatever you automate and leaves the knob where you leave it. Touch records the automation, but snaps back to the original position once you depress the mouse. I rarely use touch, but it's usefull if you have everything set up how you want and only want to record little edits here and there and what everything exactly as it was before any manipulation of knobs and such.

That didn't exactly uncomplicate it. :teeth:

It is easy though.
haha I got it eventually.  Just saying, it is more complicated than it needs to be...
 
abZ
Member
Post from GuntherYeah you need to have a dongle plugged in to make it work. There are cracked versions of cubase 4 but the are not stable at all. They usually crash as you are working on something.

I still love ReDrum on reason. I still use it and rewire it into cubase. I still dont think there has been any better drum machine that has come out yet for and DAWs. Unless Im missing something.
I was just talking to another producer the other day that said they like to rewire Reason to Cubase for ReDrum.  He said they like to link an eq and compressor to each channel then rewire directly.  You can do all that in Drumracks in ableton without having to hook up "wires" plus you can pick and choose your eq and comp via 3rd party plugs.  I really don't see the appeal with ReDrum.  When I switched to Ableton I quit Reason cold turkey.  It is still installed on my comp but I just don't see any reason to load it up.  
 
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